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Most users ever online was 248 on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:53 pm


Pronunciation?

 
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AngieT



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:15 pm    Post subject: Pronunciation? Reply with quote

Hello all.
Shocked Odd question, but do you pronounce "volucella" as "volusella" or "volukella"? Hard or soft "c", I suppose. I did do Latin at school for a year or so, but apart from being able to sing "Humpty Dumpty" in Latin I don't remember much of it. I seem to recall the teacher saying that as nobody knows how the Romans spoke, the pronunciation doesn't really matter anyway, but there must be an accepted way of saying Volucella (and I have a horrible feeling that my "s" preference is wrong!).
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Tony White



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Byfield, Northants

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: pronunciation Reply with quote

I try not to get too anal about pronunciation as even the experts disagree. I always say "Volusella" but a case could be made for "Voluchella" cf "cello". Sometimes you can feel a wee bit silly when you realise that your pronunciation is "completely wrong" but as I see it, if you make yourself clear, is it a big deal? Perhaps the majority of the population say "Clemaytis" when we're told it should be "Claymatis" or even "Cleematis", but, as I say, eether (sorry eyether) way, the meaning is clear.
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AngieT



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank 'ee very much. Down 'ere in Darzet I am glad to 'ear that pronunciashun duzzn't matter much! (Although I must admit I get a bit peeved when a friend of mine calls fuchsias "Fooksias"!)
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Ian Andrews



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Pocklington, East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angie

As a teacher of the Classics, I can happily report that I really couldn't care less how you pronounce "volucella"! Very Happy

If we are in a pedantic mood, then Classical Latin would give you a hard "c", of course, like a "k", whereas later Latin might start to give you a bit of "ch" thing going on. Of course, Classical Latin would also give you 'w' for the 'v'...wolukella!!

Frankly, though, "volucella" is a piece of...(!), compared to the Greek derived "anasimyia" which is much more juicy and sometimes has me perplexed, too!! Confused

I prefer to think of volucella as it is..."a little flying thing". Nice! Although , of course, they are not that 'small', relatively speaking, so why the diminutive form??

Thanks for bringing it up though, since the news this week reported on an Oxford professor who thought that frequently badly spelt words should be recognised in the dictionaries as acceptable. I wonder how he would pronounce it? Any way he wants, presumably!

Happy days! At least some of us seem to care about these things!

Reeguards

Ian
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Tony White



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Byfield, Northants

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I belong to the British Arachnological Society and, a few years ago, a member was kind enough (and knowledgeable enough) to list the names of all British spiders and give their meanings together with suggested pronunciations. Now a similar list for hoverflies would be handy! A nice winter's job for someone?
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David Leverton



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Vale of Glamorgan

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Pronunciation Reply with quote

Oh heaven forbid that commonly-misspelt words ever get in the dictionary under their debased forms - after all, this thread would be called "Pronounciation" if that were the case...!

On topic, I've been thinking of it as 'Volu-chella' although that's probably more Italian than Roman, if you see what I mean - good to know that "late Latin" would cover it though! My brother mentioned the hard-c 'Volu-kella' as being more traditional Latin, although good point that then it should start with a w- sound as well... I have to say that the 'Volu-sella' option never occurred to me!!

Hey Ian, thanks for the translation - hmmm, so it should be what, Grandicella? Really, I guess "relatively rather large lumpy flying thing" was too hard to get a snappy Latin name out of...

For the record, I swim against the prevailing tide of 'cle-MAY-tuss' (with its occasionally flotsam of 'cle-MAY-tiss'), preferring 'CLEM-a-tiss' as I was assured long ago that that's the technically correct way!

Confused
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Roger K.A. Morris



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 1583

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David

in this case most people tend to refer to a soft pronunciation in the UK - Volusella

Regards

Roger
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David Leverton



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Vale of Glamorgan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger K.A. Morris wrote:
in this case most people tend to refer to a soft pronunciation in the UK - Volusella


Oh right, well you live and learn! I'll try to train myself into that way of thinking, in case I should ever need to discuss the insects in question verbally with anyone who might be a little slow on the uptake... Surprised
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Ian Andrews



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Pocklington, East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of prolonging this thread even further (!), I would be happy to look into the meanings of the names of Hoverflies, as in S and F, together with ideas on pronunciation. Most of their meanings make sense to me straight away, but I am aware that that is not true for everyone.

I can see some immediate problems with the likes of 'Syrphus', as I am not at all sure from where that derived? Confused

Dasysyrphus will be a 'hairy' syrphus, though, I know that!!

It can be very difficult to pin down what certain people were thinking of when they named some insects. Similar vagueness can be found in many mottoes for institutions, too, where only the individual knows what he meant when he plucked out some Latin or Greek!

I would enjoy doing this, to be honest...however, please, if such information is readily available elsewhere, let me know and I shall go off and amuse myself elsewhere! Smile

Ian
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Roger K.A. Morris



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 1583

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Ian

This could make an interesting article for the Hoverfly Newsletter

Regards

Roger
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John O'Sullivan



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 128
Location: Sandy, Bedfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope that you will go ahead and do this, Ian. Apart from the intrinsic interest of it, such a publication would assist with the development of accurate and meaningful English names. It would even help the pure field-workers among us with identifying or locating particular species, when, for instance, key structural features or the names of host-plants, are incorporated in the names.

Good luck!

John
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conopid



Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Just to express my great interest in reading an overview/interpretation of scientific names. I have not latin knowledge at all, so rarely have any idea what might lie behind scientific names.

_________________
Nigel Jones
Shrewsbury
Shropshire
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Ian Andrews



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Pocklington, East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems some interest, so i shall make it a winter project to look at the names of hoverflies. Shall report back later in the year.

Ian
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AngieT



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Mr. Andrews: Salve Magistra. Could it be "Salve Magiste Reply with quote

Shocked Dreadfully sorry - I went to an all-girls' school with mostly female teachers, so have no idea how to greet a male teacher! And probably have remembered it wrongly anyway. Just to say that I am glad I stirred something up with my original query, and look forward to reading the "Meanings of Names" article when you get it written.
Valete! (?)
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